Darren Gough talks ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
June 27th, 2018
Darren, twelve months to go to the ICC Cricket World Cup 2019 back home in England & Wales, how do you feel about the new 10 team format, do you think this will improve the competition, it will shorten it I guess?
Well I personally would have liked to see them all playing, so some of the teams that deserve to be there unfortunately won’t be, they went for the pre-tournament knock out selection. Nevertheless, although it’s a shame that some of the other countries won’t be represented, you’ve got ten strong teams in there, they’ll all play each other, and I think it’s probably a good way of doing things, now that we’ve reached this point.
It’s hard to pick a winner, I know that! So many teams are close together at this moment in time, in fact there are a lot of teams who really don’t know what their final line up will be.
There’s only England, as I look at it that are ready for the World Cup, they’ve got their starting XI basically nailed down. The rest of the teams are still in the planning stages.’
Well yes that’s right; so my next question was going to be, based on current form, what is your long term prediction for the semi-finalists?
I think that the only problem is, the fact that England really do have their squad nailed down, they’ve already beaten Australia 4 – 1 last summer, then performed well against New Zealand, yes they lost to Scotland recently who won’t be at the World Cup, and now this time they’ve whitewashed Australia 5-0 in a one day series and have still to meet India later on in this summer.
I think that the only problem is, England are ready now; if they were to play in the World Cup tomorrow, they’d be in top form. But my concern is have they peaked too early? It tends to happen too often with the national side.
The other teams like Australia seem to be in an experimental stage, if you look at them coming over to England, they’ve not got their best three bowlers or their best two batsmen. So Warner and Smith are out and they’re missing Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc. So as they’re still experimenting, I think come the ICC World Cup they’ll be spot on, as will a number of other international sides.
What about the cross-over players who play in at least two forms of the game: the likes of Joe Root, Johnny Bairstow, Joss Butler and Ben Stokes? Might that have an impact on the final England team potentially through injury, taking Stokes as a prime example?
He’s a good player Stokes, all I would say to be fair is that in my view if you can play the 50 overs game and play it well, you are good enough to play test cricket. With Twenty20 specialist players it’s different, you can get T20 specialists around the world, who simply won’t get in their own country’s teams in the longer forms of the game, one-day or Test.
It disappoints me to see how players get pigeonholed as either one-day or Test cricketers these days, because we’ve been crying out for Joss Butler, he’s played in the Test team before, they played him in the wrong position. Now they’ve moved him to the right position where he’s able to play with a bit of freedom and express himself, hopefully we’ll get the best out of him for the next 3 or four years.
So far, and let’s not get carried away, the issues associated with batting at number seven compared with 4 are very different.
So far he’s only doing the job that Johnny Bairstow was doing, when he was batting at 7, where he was averaging 50. All Buttler has done is replace someone who was doing well as a seven, the next question is Johnny going to get runs at 4 and who is going to get runs at 5? But it all comes back to what I said, that if you can play fifty overs you can play Test cricket.
Taking it one stage further, in your view, who are the most dangerous overseas ODI players, who can turn a game?
One’s to watch out for? Well firstly it’s a shame that AB de Villiers has retired and will not be playing, that is a massive loss to South Africa.
To be honest England has got some of the best impact players, in Joss Buttler, Johnny Bairstow and Ben Stokes with ball and bat. Then there is Joe Root batting in the middle of the order, and Jason Roy who can bat right through.
Then you’ve got Australia, they’ve not quite fired up yet and based on the latest series, it would appear they’ve still got quite a bit of work to do. Glenn Maxwell, can he rise to the occasion? So far he’s shown himself to be hit and miss but he’s a game changer, Chris Lynn he can have a huge impact on the World Cup, Aaron Finch he’s currently the T20 captain but always bats well against England, however I think that Tim Paine will be the captain. He seems to bat well against England.
Moving on to India, just look at Virat Kohli and Yuvraj Singh is coming back into the ODI side. Both Kohli and Singh’s conversion rates are out of this world.
Players like Kohli and Joe Root are so important for their team because when they get in they build big innings; they control the pace of the game. Not as dynamic as some of the big hitters around the world but it will be so important to their respective teams, that players like Kohli, Williamson and Root will be the best they can be. When they get in, these players build big innings they hold an innings together. And if they each have a good tournament their respective teams will do well.
What about up and coming players coming out of County Cricket that could make the England World Cup squad
The young players who I’ve seen, the boys are only 19.
You’ve got lads, like Olly Stone he plays for Warwickshire and I’ve been watching him since he was 14 who, with a ball in his hand is outstanding, used to play for Northants [Northamptonshire] Academy coming through and is an incredible talent.
Another plays for England Under-19s, Henry Brookes also with Warwickshire, Henry can bat a bit and opens the bowling, he is from a family of brothers who could all end up playing first class cricket. He can already bowl up there at 88 to 89 miles per hour, so he’s a very talented young player to watch out for.
There’s another guy plays for Notts [Nottinghamshire], Liam Patterson-White, played for England Under-19s in 2017, I saw him last year. Still a bit all over the place, however, bowls good pace and I like what I see, he has the potential to bowl at 90 miles an hour plus. Played a one-day game for Notts last week, so they’re obviously shoving him in early.
So there are three very good young fast bowlers for a start. Also, the two Currans from Surrey, but if we’re honest it will be a push for them to make the final ODI team, one of them perhaps but any last minute injuries, then both Sam and Tom Curran could make it into the England World Cup squad.
Then there’s another lad, Ollie Pope at Surrey, only 20 years old, what a start to the season he’s had! Ollie’s made well over 400 runs in county cricket already, at an average of 80, so he’s one to watch out for. Joe Clarke at Worcester, 20 years old, a batsman very, very talented, he’s definitely another on the watch list.
Jamie Overton, a really quick bowler at Somerset, aged 24, unfortunately he has picked up back injuries at this moment in time, but I‘m sure he’ll join his brother Craig in England contention, over the next twelve to 18 months. Then, we have Rory Burns opens the batting for Surrey, got off to a flyer this season in four-day cricket.
There is so much talent in county cricket I sometimes worry that too many get overlooked at international level. For instance, one player lighting up the Royal London one-day competition is Liam Livingstone the Lancashire player. The off-spinner to watch out for is Amar Virdi at Surrey.
Even the older players, If we look at Australia they will debut players over 30, whereas in England we tend to ignore them, especially in the 29 to 30 age group. Best example I can think of is Glen Chapple, who made his ODI debut against Ireland in 2006 at 32 and went on to captain Lancashire from 2009 and won the County Championship in 2011 as well as becoming only the 5th player for the county to hit 7,000 runs and take 700 wickets in the same year.
While, your insight into the young talent currently spread around the county game is far greater than mine Darren, I would cite pushing Dominic Bess into the England camp as an excellent move.
And of course, we’ve also got Jack Leach at who missed out on the England opportunity because of injury and Bess took his place. Personally, I think it’ll be a shoot out between Somerset’s Bess and Leach, both great off-spinners, as to who gets the England starting berth. Also it’ll be interesting to see how long they can keep ignoring Jamie Porter at Essex, they say he doesn’t bowl at 90 miles an hour, but he’s a good performer and takes wickets. Still young, only 26 and at some point the selectors are going to have to give him a go. There are plenty out there, for instance Nick Cubbins has had a good start to the season with Middlesex, although all the rumours are that he doesn’t play spin too well, which I find quite comical, good cricketers always find a way.
They said that Steve Waugh didn’t play fast bowling that well. So, if he didn’t play the short ball that well, so tell me how many times did he get out to the short ball in Test Cricket! It makes me laugh when they say players can’t do ‘this’ or ‘that’, you find a way if you’re cut out to be a good cricketer.
And some other surprising news that came in the other day is that Jofra Archer, the Sussex seamer had a great Big Bash and a great IPL, came over to England from Barbados when he was 18, wants to play for England.
They’re on about relaxing the laws, so he will be available from 2019 for the World Cup and the Ashes, if that comes off it’ll be a game-changer. It will be interesting to see where they’re going on that, because he would be an unbelievable addition to England’s World Cup team.
Surely, they must recognise that as one of the ways forward with outstanding players, as it’s common practice in most other sports now?
Under ICC rules the qualification period is 4 years, so if the England & Wales Cricket Board agreed to ICC rules, player availability would be a lot different, currently ECB rules demand a 7 year residency.
As a prolific one-day player yourself: 239 wickets, 609 runs in 159 ODI outings, what are the qualities that makes a complete competitor in the 50 over game?
The one-day game is a huge test of your ability.
T20 is different, every dog has its day in T20 in my view and anybody can rise from the pack. Have a golden 4 over spell, get 3 or 4 out on the boundary, and with the bat you’ve got players who can swing the bat on the way to a quick fifty. Whereas, I believe that 50-over cricket is the ultimate test of a cricketer’s skill, because with the new ball in your hand you can bowl at 90 miles an hour, you can afford to have a couple of slips in, because it is the longer form of the game that truly tests your ability. That’s why I said earlier the 50 overs game is the true test of a player’s capability at Test level.
What about the mental strength side of it? I would have thought the longer form of the game toughened a player up, having to concentrate as well as physically play for longer periods?
Well that’s right, as a bowler the mental side of it is really important. If you bowl on a flat pitch, mentally it takes a lot out of a bowler, with the field spread out you can go for 10 to 12 runs an over in the first 4 overs, 8 and 9 runs is good on a flat pitch. Then you’ve got to come back on with six or seven overs to go and you’ve already gone for 30 or 40 runs. Mentally it’s not an easy job, because you’re thinking the worst scenario that you might go for a hundred. There are not many that have done it. I think it takes a lot out of a bowler, especially the guys that have all the power play bowling, whether it be in the middle, the start or at the death.
It’s the same for a batsman, when you have to go out throw your hands at the first few balls, they can build an innings but they’re risking their wicket in that first spell of bowling, so mentally they have to be pretty strong to keep playing the way they always play. Because if you have a few failures as a batsman it’s on your mind, with a couple of bad innings, it takes a lot of cojones to go back out there and keep playing your way. So fundamentally it’s a mental game, you have to be strong.
Whereas with T20 there is more of a fun factor, the players treat it more as a fun game and they don’t look too hard at individual performances, but I think in the longer forms of the game, they do look at their averages and strike rates and everything else. Therefore it definitely becomes a statistics game.
But certainly there’s a lot of planning goes to a T20 game, bowling techniques come into it three possibly 4 bowling spells come into it, it’s not so easy.
That difference of course translates into local club cricket, even though it’s several levels down.
Yes absolutely, a bowler who is not up to the mark in 50-over cricket soon gets found out!
What about fitness, I know you were an accomplished footballer, do you think that having another sport helped your overall fitness in one-day cricket?
I would rather have been a footballer, I just wasn’t as good! There’s far too much fitness work done off the field at the moment. It does not really help and we can prove it, Chris Woakes came back from the IPL last year to play in an ICC tournament with an injury. Ben Stokes came back from the IPL having bowled 4 overs a week for 6 weeks, then with no warm-up game, tried to play a Test match bowling 10 overs at 85 miles an hour, then he wonders why he picked up an injury.
There’s no substitute for bowling fitness, and it’s a fine line between bowling too much and not bowling enough. There’s no way bowling four overs in a T20 tournament is going to prepare you to play a Test match. The only fitness preparation for a Test match is bowling consistently over a few days.
So basically the best fitness training is longer-form game time around your group?
What I’m trying to say is, it’s been proven in the last few years that players coming back having bowled 4 overs for six weeks straight into playing a Test match, keep picking up injuries. What they should have done is come back a week early and played one 4-day game. Players need to get some overs under their belt before they play a full game, and they should do that next year certainly in the build up to the ICC World Cup. To be fair, they don’t need to over-play, because they still need to be able to express themselves. Those who know what it’s like standing in the field all day understand bowling four overs will not prepare you for either fifty over or Test cricket.
There’s no doubt and I understand that the body has got to be fit in this day age: weights, Pilates, Yoga and that is important, but getting sufficient bowling spells is also vital to a player’s match fitness.
Who were the best one-day players you played alongside, against and who gave you the best advice?
Neil Fairbrother, was one of the first I rated very highly, I played against him at Lancashire and with him for England, I thought he was a great one-day player absolutely superb. Marcus Trescothick has to come into that reckoning as well, Kevin Pietersen, Andrew Strauss all excellent performers in the one-day game. Alongside myself, Flintoff bowling at the death, only difference was he bowled wide of the crease and slanted it in, whereas I bowled up close to the stumps and reversed it in, I remember us as a good partnership.
Do you ever have a yen to go into coaching aside from your media career, have you done any coaching?
Yes I’m a level 3 coach, allowing me to coach up to international level. I do my refreshers once a year, I’ve done one-on-ones with England players and I’ve coached Under-19s as a specialist coach. I haven’t tried to go in and do something full time; coaching is something I feel that I could possibly do if it’s short term.
I like the idea of this new Twenty20 League in the UAE which the Emirates Cricket Board have announced, for example. A short term role, with the Big Bash, the IPL, Pakistan Super League, Caribbean Premier League, something like that interests me, but not a full time appointment. Certainly, a franchise role somewhere around the world for a short period, for instance this new 100 ball competition in England, possibly if something comes up with within that but, nothing that involves a more serious time period.
On that subject, what do you think about the 100 ball competition idea and potential schedule congestion in the English game?
When it was first announced I couldn’t stop laughing for three days, I think purely because of the way they released it with so many questions still to be asked. But it’s growing on me and by the time it comes around with some world-class players in it, I think it will work, but only if the best in the world are playing in it. Well fitting another short form game tournament around what is already a good competition, the NatWest T20 Blast, would be difficult, so it had to be different. In this case I think the 100 ball concept will be different enough and well supported providing there are some absolutely belting world-class players involved.
Does this kind of competition help bring junior cricketers into the game?
In this country we have no problem with the 7 to 11 age group, with Chance to Shine, All Star cricket, so cricket between 7 and 11 is as strong as it gets. Where we have a problem and tend to lose their attention is because of other sports, reality television etc. is in the age group between 12 and 16, that’s when we experience a huge drop off. So take 100 ball, should we have to play it in schools where all kids have to bowl 2 overs?
As it stands, the game as it’s played in schools at the moment means that most of the participants just stand in the field. We need to bring in a format where everybody involved bowls 2 overs and 100 balls might be a good way of doing it. We need to make it as interesting as we can; plenty of action, colour clothing and other incentives.
Darren Gough one of the most admired English cricketers of his generation and now co-presenter of talkSPORT’s Drivetime show, at his most loquacious with Expat Sport’s Andy Mac. In a chat that ranges from the ICC Cricket World Cup 2019 and the status of the qualifiers, what makes good and fit one-day players, through to England’s up and coming one-day talent, new short form competitions and junior cricket issues. Plus his views on coaching assignments as a successful broadcast presenter. and all matters cricket with the second highest England one-day international wicket-taker of all time.
Expat Sport sits down with England’s one-day international and Test cricket frontline fast bowling ace of the 1990s, and former captain of Yorkshire County Cricket Club, Darren Gough. We talk ICC Cricket World Cup 2019 and all matters cricket with the second highest England one-day international wicket-taker of all time.
